Author Topic: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?  (Read 7302 times)

Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2025, 04:44:54 pm »
1) Seems that web-browser is 100% priority. The users understood this several years ago. Os2.de forum was discussing too .

2) the second main question:
How to use os/2 today?
How to use it to earn money?
So new people will spend money to it, invest into new apps.


JTA

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2025, 05:33:53 pm »
All the solutions I listed are tools in the toolbox ... pull them out and use them, or leave them in the toolbox and run os/2 native on a platform. It's everyone's choice; we can't tell anyone what they can or can't do. Unfortunately, there are little to no os/2 tools in that toolbox, for many reasons that are very resistant to change.

If you want to solve existing problems, start pulling out all the other tools and start using them ...

- We can harness the power of other OS's to do work for us under os/2. The HostOS concept does all the heavy lifting in utilizing full resources of a laptop/desktop, but it doesn't have to be seen if you don't want it to ... boot straight into os/2's desktop vm. It feels native, yet you get at all the things that keep many from wanting to use os/2 natively. That is a powerful tool ...

- the dev uses of multiple vm's are compelling ... many of the resources of powerful desktop/laptops sit idle, but with one vm dev'ing, and another hosting the os/2 desktop, you are running "thrusters on full". There are tools to split the dev load among multiple compilers ... this might be applicable to os/2 compiling. Things I haven't even thought of, but might be possible ...

- there are flat out "no device driver" problem, no "browser" problems, no problems of any kind ... because you booted straight into the os/2 desktop vm, and it all just works.

What might be needed, to prove this concept to others, is the ability to produce a USB LiveCD stick of this entire AToF concept. Boot a machine, and show all of these things running. Linux "live cd" versions abound. One problem I'm working to overcome is the IBM/ArcaOS constraint of "IBM doesn't allow ..." demo licenses and such, and ArcaOS custom-stamps ownership into each os distro. This needs to be resolved, but I can't resolve it myself. So, I have some methods to chase down, and hopefully they'll bear fruit ... in the meantime, it's super easy to build the AToF concept, but perhaps a livecd would be even easier for many.

The point of all of this is that there are options now, and these don't require massive funding, waiting for years for the slightest little thing to change, and so on ... use these options if you want, or choose not to use them. It's all good as far as one person chooses. But, if more can see that there are viable options (more tools in the toolbox), why not try them?

Again, progress on all fronts ...
« Last Edit: March 21, 2025, 05:38:21 pm by JTA »

Klafi

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2025, 10:13:54 pm »
What would need to be changed in ARCAOS to have a modern network?

**ChatGPT Response:**
To implement or improve a modern network in ArcaOS, several changes and enhancements would be necessary, as ArcaOS (a development of OS/2) has a more limited network architecture compared to modern operating systems like Windows or Linux. Here are some key changes that would need to be made:

1. **Updating the Network Stack Software**:
   - **TCP/IP Stack**: ArcaOS uses the "IBM TCP/IP for OS/2" stack, which has not been maintained for a long time. Updating or switching to a more modern network stack (e.g., `inetd` or an open-source project) could improve network performance and compatibility.
   - **IPv6 Support**: The current TCP/IP stack in ArcaOS only supports IPv4. To support modern networks, IPv6 would need to be implemented or at least complemented with a compatible IPv6 stack.

2. **Extending Network Protocols**:
   - **Modern Protocols**: Support for current protocols such as HTTP/2, HTTPS, FTP/FTPS, WebSocket, and other common network protocols should be added to ensure interoperability with modern web services.
   - **SMBv2 and SMBv3**: The current network file system protocol, SMB (Server Message Block), is outdated and uses SMBv1, which is increasingly blocked in modern networks. Implementing SMBv2 or SMBv3 would be necessary to remain compatible with modern Windows and Linux servers.

3. **Driver Updates**:
   - **Network Card Drivers**: Support for modern network cards (e.g., Gigabit or 10-Gigabit Ethernet) would need to be added, or existing drivers would need to be updated. Many modern network cards are not directly compatible with ArcaOS, so specific drivers would need to be developed or updated.
   - **Wi-Fi Support**: ArcaOS has limited support for Wi-Fi. The development and integration of modern Wi-Fi drivers for common chipsets (e.g., Broadcom, Intel, Realtek) and support for Wi-Fi 5 (802.11ac) or Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) could expand the network capabilities.

4. **Firewall and Security**:
   - **Firewall**: A modern firewall capable of monitoring and controlling traffic based on current security standards would need to be developed or integrated.
   - **Encryption**: Support for modern encryption protocols such as TLS 1.2 and 1.3 for web communication and VPN services (e.g., OpenVPN) should be enhanced to ensure secure communication.

5. **Integration of Modern Network Services**:
   - **DHCP and DNS**: Support for DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) for automatic IP address assignment and advanced DNS services would need to be integrated or improved.
   - **NAT and VPN**: Support for Network Address Translation (NAT) and VPN protocols like OpenVPN and WireGuard could enable ArcaOS to securely communicate in modern networks.

6. **Updating the User Interface**:
   - **Network Management**: A modernized user interface for network management (e.g., for configuring IP addresses, DNS, Wi-Fi, VPN) could improve the usability of ArcaOS and bring it on par with other operating systems.

7. **Software Compatibility**:
   - **Modern Applications**: Many modern applications and services rely on the latest network standards. Compatibility with these applications requires significant improvements in the network protocols and interfaces in ArcaOS.

**Summary**:
To equip ArcaOS with a modern network, extensive changes would be needed, both at the network stack software level and in terms of drivers and security protocols. While some of these changes could be addressed with new software solutions and drivers, it remains a long-term project, as ArcaOS was not originally designed for use in modern network environments.

**I don't know if all of this will be achieved, but I thank you.**

Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2025, 11:00:02 pm »
Let's ask ChatGPT rewrite the code of OS/2 kernel.

Paul Smedley

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2025, 11:33:26 pm »
What would need to be changed in ARCAOS to have a modern network?

**ChatGPT Response:**
   - **SMBv2 and SMBv3**: The current network file system protocol, SMB (Server Message Block), is outdated and uses SMBv1, which is increasingly blocked in modern networks. Implementing SMBv2 or SMBv3 would be necessary to remain compatible with modern Windows and Linux servers.
This part at least is incorrect. ArcaOS has some some time (since 5.0?) included a Samba plugin that supports smb2+

Dave Yeo

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2025, 12:18:23 am »
What would need to be changed in ARCAOS to have a modern network?

**ChatGPT Response:**
To implement or improve a modern network in ArcaOS, several changes and enhancements would be necessary, as ArcaOS (a development of OS/2) has a more limited network architecture compared to modern operating systems like Windows or Linux. Here are some key changes that would need to be made:

1. **Updating the Network Stack Software**:
   - **TCP/IP Stack**: ArcaOS uses the "IBM TCP/IP for OS/2" stack, which has not been maintained for a long time. Updating or switching to a more modern network stack (e.g., `inetd` or an open-source project) could improve network performance and compatibility.
   - **IPv6 Support**: The current TCP/IP stack in ArcaOS only supports IPv4. To support modern networks, IPv6 would need to be implemented or at least complemented with a compatible IPv6 stack.

This is really the main thing, most of the other points are already covered or things like WiFi, a different discussion.

David McKenna

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2025, 12:56:56 am »
 I agree the 2 main needs are #1: Browser and #2:WiFi. But like Dave points out there are other currently lesser needs (like IPv6) that may become urgent as time moves on. Also it seems there are other hardware issues becoming apparent - I have a new motherboard that does not have anything for IRQ0, and so has very weird timing issues, as well as only 800MB memory below 4GB. This forced me to go with a VM in Windows - wasn't happy about that.

  Have a possibly dumb question, not being a programmer: is it possible to produce OS/2 executables with GCC inside of Linux? If so, would make compiling large apps easier, no?

Regards,

Dave Yeo

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2025, 02:36:46 am »
  Have a possibly dumb question, not being a programmer: is it possible to produce OS/2 executables with GCC inside of Linux? If so, would make compiling large apps easier, no?

In theory, it is quite possible. In practice, it would mean recompiling most of our tool chain on Linux as Linux binaries as a start, using our headers and libs and who knows what else. How much porting would be required in the recompilation is unknown, we'd also be porting to 64bit. There may be a chicken and egg problem too, needing cross compiled tools to cross compile.

ivan

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2025, 03:26:23 am »
Rant !!

I may be a lone voice in this discussion bur what I would like to see is the removal of the RPM/YUM abomination from our Operating System.  We had/have a very good method of installing programs - warpin which does not require OS/2 to pretend to be linux which it is not.  Those that want to play with linux would be better installing  linux and using that.

Rant over.

Eugene Gorbunoff

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2025, 08:41:48 am »
To Ivan:  RPM/YUM relates to linux libraries & software only. If you don't use ported software then you never use RPM/YUM.  There was resistance to all this linux stuff in ~ 2011. But it flooded OS/2 and you can't change this. The porters need this infrastructure else they can't put everything to order.

2015 - ArcaNoae have integrated RPM/YUM to ArcaOS.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 09:47:10 am by Eugene Gorbunoff »

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2025, 02:47:19 pm »
Hi Ivan
Rant !!

I may be a lone voice in this discussion bur what I would like to see is the removal of the RPM/YUM abomination from our Operating System.  We had/have a very good method of installing programs - warpin which does not require OS/2 to pretend to be linux which it is not.  Those that want to play with linux would be better installing  linux and using that.

Rant over.
You came late to the rant. I have a dislike for the FHS (what is where the files are located) and not rpm/yum as it is. WarpIn can not replace RPM as it is right now. The good thing about RPM is having a server (or group of server) with the packages and help to manage the packages dependencies. When I started to use RPM/YUM I felt like I lost control of where the files are being located in my HDD, at the end I get used to that because it was not that dramatic for me to be "file control freak", I guess the Linux people got the same anxiety at first.

Sadly there is no man power to avoid FHS. It was explained that porting Linux software to OS/2, plus adding the complexity of relocating all the files in a different way it is too much work.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
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Martin Iturbide

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2025, 04:25:16 pm »
Hi

  Have a possibly dumb question, not being a programmer: is it possible to produce OS/2 executables with GCC inside of Linux? If so, would make compiling large apps easier, no?

I don't have the full knowledge here. But this article is interesting:
- Project: 2ine. You have no idea how much effort went into getting this stupid white square on the screen (Jan 21, 2018)

It is a long story but he used an old gcc to compile a little OS/2 software that will run in Linux (interpretated) and in OS/2. But it was very experimental.

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Martin Iturbide
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... just share the dream.

Dave Yeo

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2025, 07:14:08 pm »
I think that David means pure cross compiling, building OS/2 exe's and dll's on Linux.
This is already possible on Linux using OpenWatcom, with a bit of work, it wouldn't be hard to compile Doodles screensaver on Linux as an example. Cmd build scripts would need to be rebuilt using sh scripts, not sure about the Rexx scripts but Linux supports Rexx or at worst ignore them (no bldlevel info), Warpin wouldn't work for packaging, otherwise quite possible.
Same could be done with GCC, at least in theory. People regularly build Windows programs on Linux.

Andi B.

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2025, 10:30:00 am »
Rant !!

I may be a lone voice in this discussion bur what I would like to see is the removal of the RPM/YUM abomination from our Operating System.  We had/have a very good method of installing programs - warpin which does not require OS/2 to pretend to be linux which it is not.  Those that want to play with linux would be better installing  linux and using that.

Rant over.
If you only read the recent post here about ApacheOpenOffice and understand the problem behind, then you will see very fast how wrong your statement above is. Or do you wanna say we should completely avoid all these ported software?

Martin Iturbide

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Re: Brainstorm: What is Next with OS/2 ?
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2025, 01:48:44 pm »
Hello

For the moment we have in no specific order:
1) Modern web browser
2) Wifi Driver.
3) Memory issues
4) IPv6.

And side discussion:
1) There is no need to worry because we have virtualization.
2) The dislike of RPM/YUM or FHS.

Regards
Martin Iturbide
OS2World NewsMaster
... just share the dream.